Posts by True North

41

Do you still call it "the truth"?

by True North in

jw
friends

do you find youself still calling it "the truth" even though you are an ex-jw?

for instance, in one posting i just read, the poster wrote "when i was in the truth..." .

not a big deal, perhaps, but really not such a good thing either as it's a habitual holdover from the program of mental conditioning we were subject to.

True North

Do you find youself still calling it "the truth" even though you are an ex-JW? For instance, in one posting I just read, the poster wrote "when I was in the truth..."

Not a big deal, perhaps, but really not such a good thing either as it's a habitual holdover from the program of mental conditioning we were subject to. Wouldn't it be healthier for an ex-JW to refer to it as "the falsity" or "the falsehood" or even, if one wished to impute a lack of sincerity to the JW leadership, "the lie"? It might take some effort at first to break the old bad habit but surely it would be worth it. After all, if we are telling ourselves that we are no longer "in the truth" then what are we telling ourselves we are in?

5

Just read account of atheistic Ayn Rand cult -- so many similarities to JWs

by True North in

jw
friends

i just happened across an article titled "the sociology of the ayn rand cult" that was written in 1972 by the libertarian economist murray rothbard.

(ayn rand was the author of the novels the fountainhead and atlas shrugged.

) as i read the article, i noted so many similarities with jws, particularly as regards practices of thought and behavior control (including disfellowshipping, shunning, dividing families, banning forbidden books, discouraging free discussion, claims to being the one source of truth, and so forth).

True North

I just happened across an article titled "The Sociology of the Ayn Rand Cult" that was written in 1972 by the libertarian economist Murray Rothbard. (Ayn Rand was the author of the novels The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged.) As I read the article, I noted so many similarities with JWs, particularly as regards practices of thought and behavior control (including disfellowshipping, shunning, dividing families, banning forbidden books, discouraging free discussion, claims to being the one source of truth, and so forth). While the Watchtower org supplies supposed spiritual justifications for such practices, it's interesting that an organization of committed atheists would develop and employ similar control techniques.

The article is at http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard23.html.

16

To Randall Watters, Simon, and fellow JWD posters

by True North in

jw
friends

to randall watters, simon, and fellow jwd posters:.

i just wanted to say thanks for being here (and in randy's case, there at http://www.freeminds.org).. before discovering this site, i had been out of the jw org.

for nearly 20 years.

True North

To Randall Watters, Simon, and fellow JWD posters:

I just wanted to say thanks for being here (and in Randy's case, there at http://www.freeminds.org).

Before discovering this site, I had been out of the JW org. for nearly 20 years. However, I did not appreciate the extent to which the org. and its effects were not out of me and my life nor the extent to which I still harbored an inaccurate understanding of it.

I had always shied away from looking into JW topics on the Web or reading any "apostate" literature. However, in the latter part of last year some unhappy things happened that led me to start reconsidering my life and the role that the JW org. had had, and continued to have, in it. To make a not-too-long story even shorter, I Googled my way onto Randy Watters's freeminds site and from there followed a link to JWD. After lurking for a couple of months, I finally dipped my toe in the water and made my first post.

Anyway, what I've read on this site and the freeminds site (and some others too) has been of great help to me in clarifying matters of great importance to me and my children. Good things have already come from this for us and I expect more good in the future.

So, thanks Randy, Simon, and my fellow JWD posters for all the help. For me and my children, you've really made a difference.

Best wishes,

True North

41

2am visit from elders. Car chase!

by kwintestal in

to get a break from my jw parents when i was 17 (i'm 25 now) i took an apartment of my own.

i was working full time and going to school.

a busy schedule that allowed me to miss meetings without them constantly hounding me.

True North

I knew an elder who became a JW after he was married. His wife, a non-JW, hated it and finally divorced him over it. He wanted to remarry but didn't have "scriptural grounds" so he and another JW started staking out her house at night. Finally, one night they saw a guy coming out of her house in the early AM and, since this was considered proof of adultery with the required two witnesses, he was considered free to remarry.

59

I CONFRONTED THE ENTIRE CONGREGATION TODAY

by Corvin in

jw
friends

today, i was on the scene of the local congregation of jw's where my ex-wife and her husband attend.

physical, emotional and mental abuse has been purpetrated upon my kids for eight years now.

they have been victims of alcoholism, verbal bashings and they have been made to watch their stepfather beat the hell out of their mother and then be halled off to jail without saying a word to anyone for fear fo reprisal from him and their mother.

True North

Remember that when Nancy told JD J[edit] that she wanted to go and live with her dad to escape the abuse, JD told her that it was not a good idea. When Nancy asked why, JD told her that it would put her in "spiritual danger".

They really do believe that the worst JW is better than the best "worldly" person (let alone "apostate"), don't they? To them, all that matters is whether or not people are JWs and how they're otherwise treated in "this system of things" is relatively unimportant.

MARK M[edit]! ... COME OUT HERE AND PICK ON ME!

You're fighting the good fight Corvin, but please don't let them provoke you into doing anything that might be used against you in court. The people you've described sound as if they have few scruples about behaving cruelly toward "apostates" and trying to work the system in pursuing "theocratic warfare".

BTW, I've often wondered how judges in family court would feel if they knew that JWs would consider them and their own children and grandchildren to be "worldly" and therefore not worthy of association? If it were me, I think that I might be somewhat offended and consider that that was perhaps not a good mindset in which to raise children in our pluralistic society.

7

JW morality: is it from virtue or calculating self interest?

by True North in

jw
friends

jws love to congratulate themselves for being -- as they see it -- morally superior to "worldly" people.

however, if one does something right to get a reward (eternal life in paradise, status in the congregation) or refrains from doing something wrong to avoid punishment (death at armageddon, disfellowshipping), is that virtue or calculating self interest?

is virtue only what one does and not why?

True North

JWs love to congratulate themselves for being -- as they see it -- morally superior to "worldly" people. However, if one does something right to get a reward (eternal life in paradise, status in the congregation) or refrains from doing something wrong to avoid punishment (death at Armageddon, disfellowshipping), is that virtue or calculating self interest? Is virtue only what one does and not why?

How many JWs have you known whose behavior, which they take as evidence of their moral superiority, would significantly change if they were no longer concerned about Jehovah's carrot and stick?

31

Questions For Jehovah's Witnesses Regarding Doctrine

by Corvin in

recently, xlaurax asked for some good questions to ask jw's when they come to visit.

the following is taken from ray franz's book, crisis of conscience, pages 330 and 331. these are very good questions and should do the job nicely.. .

what plain statement in scripture could anyone, governing body member or anyone else, point to and say, "here, the bible clearly says":.

True North

And as we all know, it's not even a resurrection hope. When you die, you cease to exist -- period. Everyone who ever lived will not come back. Instead, God will recreate copies of these people who will look identical to the original and programmed with memories stored in God's great memory bank (consisting of a googleplex theobytes, I would imagine). Because of their programming, these virtual clones will believe themselves to be all...

Leolaia,

That's an interesting sort of question about the reality of resurrection that I was first introduced to -- oddly enough -- in a review of one of the original, old-school Star Trek books (by James Blish, I think). As I recall, the reviewer felt a highlight of the book to be one of the character's ruminations on the nature of being transported. Specifically, this character (Spock?) felt that it was not really transportation so much as it was his actual death (through disassembly) and the subsequent creation of an exact copy of him -- a distinct being -- at another location.

As a thought experiment, let's say that Jehovah created an exact "resurrected" copy of us while we were still alive and then proceeded to kill us (the original). Would we then still be alive since the exact copy was still running around? If not, then how could we believe that in the resurrection it is we who will actually live again as opposed to something else that will simply seem like us and think it's us?

Of course, if rather one believes that resurrection would be a matter of stuffing an undying soul back into a re-created body or some such thing, then this issue might be avoided. However, don't JWs still believe that nothing survives the death of the body?

31

Is It True That Since Leaving The JWs That You're Totally Angry & Unhappy?

by minimus in

jw
friends

the watchtower tries to say that "apostates" are in a bedarkened environment.

they are looking for "true freedom" which they say does not exist.

we are said to be "gnashing our teeth" and angry.

True North

I feel much, much better for being out of the JW org. And as I continue to root it and its effects out of my life, things continue to improve for me.

Unfortunately, however, even after leaving it, the org. has been a source of great unhappiness to me in the form of my hostile JW wife. (For instance, there's nothing quite like finding out that your wife has been telling your kids that you're a tool of Satan.)

31

I need HELP!!!!!!!!!

by Samdownunder in

jw
friends

can anyone relate and help with the nagging doubts that it really was the"truth" and we are all doing the wrong thing and being misled.

i have read a lot of information to sway me from the witnesses and to think it is only a man made religion, but still i fear i could be wrong and going against god.

how do you all deal with this feeling that surely most have experienced.

True North

Hi Samdownunder,

After years of JW indoctrination and mental conditioning, it can be hard to shake the nagging doubts and fears.

One thing that can help is to see that this experience is not unique to ex-JWs. It's common among those who've left high-control religious groups. Former Moonies, for instance, may be troubled by nagging doubts that the Moonies really had the truth or that they were wrong to leave. However, they won't be bothered at all by thoughts that maybe the JWs have the truth any more than you or any other ex-JW is likely to be troubled by the thought that maybe the Moonies were right. That's because the doubts and fears are a product of the indoctrination you received. Moonie indoctrination produces residual Moonie-oriented phobias while JW indoctrination produces residual JW-focused fears.

To help in this regard, I heartily second Bubbamar's recommendation to read Steven Hassan's books. I think the best one to start with is his Combatting Cult Mind Control. Hassan was a Moonie at one time and this book tells of his experiences in getting into and out of that group and his subsequent research and experiences in connection with helping others to break free from such groups. What makes this a particularly good first read for JWs and ex-JWs is that he doesn't ever mention JWs at all. You, however, are likely to observe the similarities with the groups he does discuss.

If you have trouble finding this book in Australia, you might try online at http://www.amazon.com or http://www.amazon.co.uk.

Best wishes,

True North

59

How Many Here Left The Organization? How Many Got Kicked Out??

by minimus in

jw
friends

just curious.....

True North

About twenty years ago I just left -- no DF, no DA (as far as I know), no fade. I wasn't "stumbled" by anyone or anything and wasn't engaged in any immoral conduct -- just didn't believe it anymore.